Show Sidebar Log in
English @ SUNY Geneseo The SUNY Geneseo English Community
  • Home
  • Members
  • Groups
  • Site-Wide Activity
  • Read the Terms and Conditions
  • Set up 2FA

Group Admins

  • Profile picture of The Management

Group Mods

  • Profile picture of Joe Cope
  • Profile picture of Rob Doggett

Irish Studies

Public Group active 7 years, 8 months ago

A group for cross-disciplinary discussion of topics related to Irish history, literature, and culture.

Heaney & the Romanticization of Violence in the Context of Plato

Tagged: Plato

  • This topic has 1 reply, 2 voices, and was last updated 12 years, 4 months ago by Joseph Fennie.
Viewing 2 posts - 1 through 2 (of 2 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • April 23, 2014 at 3:21 pm #399
    Devon Poniatowski
    Participant

    All the thought I have given to the place of violence in the realm of art has lead me to consider Plato’s Republic, and how Plato chooses to banish the poets from his ideal society. From my understanding, he chooses this because (in his eyes) poets construct a dreamy conception of emotional toil, which encourages the reader to become less critical toward violent happenings, and more “absorbed” in their own emotional experience. To Plato, this “self-absorption” can be dangerous and distracting to “logical matters.” I suppose this standpoint would then discount the efforts of the artists in society who mirror (and simultaneously challenge) the culture in which the art is created.

    I am reminded of Yeats’s idea that, although cultural change must occur on a collaborative level, the seeds of revolution are planted in moments of solitude: for example, from reading a poem or observing a painting (Goya’s Third of May, for instance). It is this artistic expression that has the potential to spark revelation in the beholder/reader, and inspire movement toward social change. This assumes that revolution therefore begins on an individual level, and then eventually grows into a collaborative effort.

    Here is something I am curious about: given Heaney’s tendency to aestheticize violence and death, how does his poetry function to encourage (or discourage) the chaos that grew out of the Terrors in Ireland? Depending on your reaction to this question, would an ideal society benefit (or suffer) from the illumination of poetic expression? What is poetry’s power in terms of social change and even revolution? These questions appear to be considered by Heaney himself in his collection (North), as chaos and terror was blooming.

    April 29, 2014 at 8:50 pm #413
    Joseph Fennie
    Participant

    Interestingly enough Plato’s idea of banishing the poets from his imagined society has worked its way into the history of the world and its civilizations. Marx himself dismissed art from his communal society, since it distracts the individual from the progression of the whole. In a more applied sense, Hitler destroyed thousands of pieces of art that he found disagreeable with his world view and how he wanted to rule his expanding nation.

    This sets me up for my answer to your question. I think a society has both the ability to benefit or suffer from artistic depiction found in poetry, paintings, etc. You have provided one example already of a society benefiting from art depicting violence. Goya’s Third of May, paints a picture of the cruelty and gruesomeness of war. If you look at a photo of the painting you will see a figure dressed in white, his arms raised causing his body to represent a cross, about to be fired upon. Goya transforms this victim of a firing squad into an artistic symbol. The man is innocent, pure, and a martyr for the Spanish cause. This piece of art because of its symbolism and its bias will sway the viewer to categorize the victim as the good guy or at least pity him, therefore, potentially swaying their opinion of the war to align with the cause of the Spanish. Here is evidence of art as propaganda.

    I think both Yeats and Heaney’s poetry had an effect on the violence that was prominent during their lifetimes. I think both of them furthered this violence whether that was their intention or not. I will strictly talk about Heaney since that is what you asked about. In North, Heaney creates this idea of tribes and tribal rites in most of his poems. I want to look at “Funeral Rites” specifically. At the very beginning of the poem Heaney writes, “I shouldered a kind of manhood / stepping in to lift the coffins / of dead relations.” There is a ritual here, one of ascending into manhood, becoming a member of the tribe with this evolution. Later in the poem Heaney gives meaning to this ritual and also to the murder of this man, writing: “I would restore / the great chambers of Boyne, / prepare a sepulchre / under the cupmarked stones.” The Boyne is historically where the kings of Ireland were buried. This ceremony gives meaning to the murder, celebrating the deceased as a martyr whether Heaney intended it or not. This could potentially further the violence already taking place while the poem is being written. This could be viewed as art being used for the furthering of negative acts. In both instances the art is being received and interpreted by the readers and is a form of propaganda.

    So to answer the question, I think Heaney’s work is somewhat problematic because he focuses his work on death, but in such a way that makes it almost glorious and purposeful to die. Since art is propaganda there have ben many tries to control it throughout history. In a perfect society where change is not necessary and no conflict arises then art would not exist since it would have no purpose, no meaning. Like Yeats believed, the creative process comes from conflict within oneself or from the outside world.

  • Author
    Posts
Viewing 2 posts - 1 through 2 (of 2 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
Log In
Group logo of Irish Studies
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Announcements
  • Docs
  • Members 103

Recent Blog Posts

  • Profile picture of Christian Case

    Christian Case edited the blog post Works Cited in the group Group logo of Irish StudiesIrish Studies: 7 years, 8 months ago

    Yeats, W. B. The Celtic Twilight. Macmillan and Co., 1893. Print.

    Yeats, W.B. “The Song of Wandering Aengus.” The Collected Poems of W.B. Yeats, edited by Richard J. Finneran. Springer, 1991. Pp. 59 – 60 […]

  • Profile picture of Emilio Garcia

    Emilio Garcia wrote a new blog post Remembrance Day Bombing in the group Group logo of Irish StudiesIrish Studies: 7 years, 8 months ago

    The Remembrance Day Bombing, also known as the Poppy Day Massacre, occurred in late 1987 in the town of Enniskillen. The bombing resulted in the death of ten people, nine civilians and one police officer, and the […]

  • Profile picture of Carina Chanthabandith

    Carina Chanthabandith edited the blog post About the Authors in the group Group logo of Irish StudiesIrish Studies: 7 years, 8 months ago

    ABOUT US

    Jade Chang: Hi! I’m second year Social Studies Adolescent Education Major at SUNY Geneseo. I’ve been interested in Irish history since I took an Immigration history class with Professor Mapes. Whi […]

  • Profile picture of Olivia Schmidt

    Olivia Schmidt edited the blog post Works Cited and About Us in the group Group logo of Irish StudiesIrish Studies: 7 years, 8 months ago

    Bloom-Cooper, Louis. “Bloody Sunday: Was the NICRA March Illegal or the Ban
        on Marches Unlawful?” Political Quarterly, vol. 77, no. 2, Apr. 2006, pp. 227–
        237. EBSCOhost, 10 Nov. 2018.

    Brod […]

  • Profile picture of Hailey Merry

    Hailey Merry edited the blog post Bloody Sunday 1972 in the group Group logo of Irish StudiesIrish Studies: 7 years, 8 months ago

    On January 30, 1972 a shooting in the Bogside are of Derry in Northern Ireland occurred. In January of 1972, a ban on marches was put into place, and was extended into early February. The Northern Ireland […]

  • Profile picture of Eamon Danieu

    Eamon Danieu edited the blog post Glenfada Park in the group Group logo of Irish StudiesIrish Studies: 7 years, 8 months ago

    Back to Bloody Sunday Page

    Back to Main Page
    “Jim Wray fell close to the alleyway, immobilized by a gunshot wound in the back…To the horror of eyewitness, Wray was approached by a Para who shot him again in t […]

  • Profile picture of Eamon Danieu

    Eamon Danieu edited the blog post Shooting of Jack Duddy in the group Group logo of Irish StudiesIrish Studies: 7 years, 8 months ago

    Back to Bloody Sunday Page

    Back to Main Page

    In previous centuries, walls were breached with battering rams and siege towers. In Derry, in 1972 the Paras Support Company used armored personnel carriers, four […]

  • Profile picture of Carina Chanthabandith

    Carina Chanthabandith edited the blog post Borders, Boundaries, and their Function in Northern Irish History in the group Group logo of Irish StudiesIrish Studies: 7 years, 8 months ago

    Timeline of the Protestant and Catholic tension in Northern Ireland 

    First, there is the cultural boundary created by English colonists within Ireland. On one side is the Catholic Irish who resented the […]

  • Profile picture of Christian Case

    Christian Case edited the blog post Evolution of Irish Stereotypes in the group Group logo of Irish StudiesIrish Studies: 7 years, 8 months ago

    Negative stereotypes in Ireland trace back to their Celtic ancestors who were once openly criticized by outsiders as barbaric heathens with crude traditions and little understanding of the world. Druid traditions […]

  • Profile picture of Olivia Schmidt

    Olivia Schmidt edited the blog post Terence O’Neill Becomes Prime Minister in the group Group logo of Irish StudiesIrish Studies: 7 years, 8 months ago

    Terence O’Neill was a member of the Ulster Unionist Party, however, he was constantly involving himself in Catholic affairs–meeting with them, attending events, and actively trying to reverse statutes excluding a […]

More Blogs

Recently Active Members

Profile picture of Paul Schacht
Profile picture of Gillian Paku
Profile picture of Beth McCoy
Profile picture of Jaidyn Vorpahl
Profile picture of Brenna Cumming
Profile picture of Kendra Brace
Profile picture of Anna Enright
Profile picture of Daphne Paul-LaRonca
Profile picture of Alex Campitiello
Profile picture of Marlea Petroziello
Profile picture of Brianna Tooke
Profile picture of Elizabeth Clodfelter
Profile picture of Skylar Riedell
Profile picture of Rebecca Fox
Profile picture of Avery Wolfe

Connect

@GeneseoEnglish

SUNY Geneseo English Department

english-at-geneseo-dot-edu

Terms and Conditions

Read our terms and conditions here.

Sitemap

  • Groups
  • Home Page
  • Members
  • Site-Wide Activity
  • Sites
  • Terms and Conditions
  • Two-factor authentication
Powered by Commons In A Box
Skip to toolbar
  • About WordPress
    • About WordPress
    • Get Involved
    • WordPress.org
    • Documentation
    • Learn WordPress
    • Support
    • Feedback
  • Log In
  • Register